Skip to main content area
Exclusive: Director Edward Berger discusses the real world parallels, intentional and otherwise, to the political moment occurring right now in the U.S. and West.
By David Crow | |
- Share on Facebook (opens in a new tab)
- Share on Twitter (opens in a new tab)
- Share on Linkedin (opens in a new tab)
- Share on email (opens in a new tab)
| Comments count:0
Conclave is a movie rooted in the medieval. This is evident from one of the very first scenes in which men adorned in red robes and white collars scurry hushedly across the Sistine Chapel. It is here that we find Cardinal Thomas Lawrence (Ralph Fiennes) reluctantly assuming his role of the Dean of the College of Cardinals—which means he is in charge of overseeing the next papal conclave that will elect a new Pope to the seat of St. Peter.
By design, this world looks positively ancient with its arcane customs and rituals. Yet any viewer who might be feeling current anxiety about a certain presidential election occurring in the U.S. in less than two weeks will instantly recognize both the tribalist factions that breakdown in a techno-savvy Vatican, as well as a shockingly twisty electoral process with more turns, and ruined careers, than an Aaron Sorkin drama.
“These are political factions that are going against each other,” director Edward Berger explains when we sit down to discuss his new film. “They represent in a way the discourse we are having. Liberals, conservatives; north, south; race, gender. They’re all sort of battling each other, and whoever wins will influence a lot of people’s thinking. So it’s a big decision, a big ideological war.”
Without giving too much of the game away, there are the self-described liberals in the film, led by Cardinal Bellini (Stanley Tucci), an Italian-American cardinal who claims, repeatedly, he does not want to be pope, even as he tells like-minded priests how to best canvass for him among their colleagues in the conclave. On the diametrically opposite side is Cardinal Tedesco (Sergio Castellitto), a gregarious and broad-legged Italian priest whose charisma the film’s director likens to a good ol’ boy smoking a vape as he slaps you on the back. He’s also the one insisting it is time to go back to the way things were 40 years ago when the popes were Italian, the language spoken beneath Michelangelo’s Basilica was Latin, and Western Europe had not welcomed so many “unwanted” immigrants.
Ad
Ad – content continues below
In the middle is everyone else, including a murder’s row of talented actors like John Lithgow and Lucian Msamati playing alternative cardinals vying for the papacy, and each representing a distinctly timely point-of-view about how power should be wielded in the years and culture wars to come, ecumenical or otherwise. Trying to corral all their egos is Fiennes’ central Lawrence, a priest who no longer is sure he believes in God but finds it a divine mission to bend rules and open laptops if it might mean discovering any possible political tampering occurring behind the scenes.
“Obviously you always want a movie to be of its time and reflect things,” Berger says of the film’s serendipitous release window. “We did lose the ability, and that is reflected in the movie, to really have a conversation and a civilized disagreement. In a way, the world is made of fundamentalists who are so certain about what they believe, and a lot of what the movie is about is accepting uncertainty.”
Despite the film’s heavy themes, the picture is actually a pretty crackling potboiler with more hard-turns and shocks than its setting would suggest. We won’t give any of them away, but it’s ironic that the film is coming out on the eve of an American election being watched around the world with bated breath—an election that has had its own surprises that might’ve seemed preposterous if they too appeared in a prestige thriller like Conclave.
“We obviously didn’t plan the movie to be released this year,” Berger muses about the irony. “We have been making it for years and years, so it’s coincidental. At the same time, it’s interesting to see how many twists you make in a movie, but you’re still almost topped by reality. [This American election] has even more twists, and I hope it has a good outcome in a couple weeks that is satisfactory to a lot of people in the world.”
With that said, Berger didn’t design this film solely to be a reflection of 2024. As the first movie Berger has made since receiving a screenwriting Oscar nomination for All Quiet on the Western Front, a film which also was nominated for Best Picture, Conclave was intended to be a breath of fresh air for the filmmaker. After doing a largely visual and silent film about the relentless nature of war, here is a thriller where most of the excitement is derived from dialogue and intellectual ideas coming into cerebral, and then sometimes physical, combat.
The German-Swiss director likens the project to a palate cleanser after having “the same conversation” with himself for five years on All Quiet. However, both movies still feature patriarchal leaders of men who enjoy throwing their weight around while setting terms against one another. Perhaps that’s why Berger credits his way into relating to Conclave being not only Cardinal Lawrence’s doubt, but a sermon in particular that Fiennes gives early in the movie and before the conclave officially begins. During his speech before the doors are shut and the windows covered, Fiennes intones about the importance of doubt in a pope who will be asked to represent every opinion, perspective, and soul in the Catholic world.
Ad – content continues below
“That’s what I connected to in the film, because I used to think often that doubt is sort of equal to weakness,” Berger considers. “But it is a strength. I’ve learned to embrace it as a strength, because it furthers discussions. It keeps you open-minded towards other opinions, even if you then decide, ‘You know what, I disagree with it.’ At least you’re open to it, you’re ready to listen and have a discourse, and again learn from it and not be fundamentalist. I think the worst thing about a leader is being a fundamentalist who doesn’t listen.”
Conclave is a movie about contrasts: the contrast between what we call “liberal” and “conservative,” egalitarianism versus combativeness, even old and new. The director tells us they really did build a complete replica of the Sistine Chapel—save for the ceiling, which is CGI (where’s Michelangelo when you need him?)—but at the same time it’s contrasted with the dormitories of the Casa Santa Marta where the cardinals rest. Even in their marble environs, though, they are surrounded by the hum of fluorescent lights and modernity. To raise the tension, Berger admits these sequences are lit and filmed in a way to evoke a “jail cell.” It also reflects an eye on the past and another on the future.
It is a vision of the competing perspectives that are making all current elections, real and fictional, complete nail-biters. Then again, Berger who was himself raised Protestant who had little knowledge or interest in the inner-workings of the Catholic Church until Conclave came along, recognizes the universality of this.
Read more
Movies
Edward Berger Addresses James Bond 26 Director Rumors: ‘Bond, I Grew Up With It’
TV
TV Show Elections To Make You Feel Better (Or Worse) About Politics
“It doesn’t matter where this movie takes place,” Berger considers. “I think the Vatican is an incredibly interesting world because it is so secretive… but it represents anything. It could be watching a boardroom, you know? It could be anything where a top job is filled. So Ralph’s character, his struggle as that quiet guy on the corner who fears doubt and needs to find answers, is something a lot of people can relate to. It was certainly my way in.”
Conclave is in limited U.S. release now and opens in the UK on Nov. 29.
Ad
- Share:
- Share on Facebook (opens in a new tab)
- Share on Twitter (opens in a new tab)
- Share on Linkedin (opens in a new tab)
- Share on email (opens in a new tab)
|
Comment:
Comments count:0
Tags: DramaRalph FiennesStanley Tucci
Written by
David Crow|@DCrowsNest
David Crow is the movies editor at Den of Geek. He has long been proud of his geek credentials. Raised on cinema classics that ranged from…
Read more from David Crow